When Jordanian-born Nour Hadidi arrived in Canada to study commerce at McGill, a roommate introduced her to the world of stand-up comedy via YouTube. From that moment, Nour knew comedy was something she wanted to pursue. She finished her degree and worked for a few years in finance before taking the leap and working in comedy full-time as a television writer and stand-up comic. Brutally honest in her routines, Nour draws on her experience as a Muslim woman of colour making her own way on a career path that can sometimes be unwelcoming. “You know, it kind of takes over your life. There’s a rush when you do stand-up comedy that's unlike anything else. To get up there the adrenaline is, you know, pumping through your body. And to make people laugh, it feels like acceptance.”
INTRO:
TINA PITTAWAY:
When Nour Hadidi arrived in Montreal back in 2006, her course in life seemed set.
She left her home in Jordan to study commerce at McGill University, but when her roommate showed her clips on YouTube of standup comedy, something changed.
NOUR HADIDI:
I never thought when I was seventeen moving here that I could be a full-time standup comedian, TV writer. And I guess I found this artform that I could see myself doing.
STANDUP CLIP:
I tried explaining Craigslist to my dad. He said, who is this Craig? Why are you on his list?
TINA PITTAWAY:
I’m Tina Pittaway, and my conversation with Nour Hadidi is next, on Countless Journeys.
MUSIC UP
TINA PITTAWAY:
Nour Hadidi has been a full-time comedian for more than a decade.
She cut her teeth in Montreal’s comedy circuit, but soon moved to Toronto, where the variety of styles, and the sheer greater number of venues, gave her more room to grow and shape her style.
And over the years, that style - which is old school set-up and punchline - has gotten both sharper, and more personal.
Exploring hot-button issues like racism, identity and mental health.
I spoke with Nour from her home in Toronto.
TAKE INTERVIEW
TINA PITTAWAY : What were your first impressions of Montreal?
NOUR HADIDI:
There were a lot of things that were different. I'm very glad that my dad came with me for a week and we went to Future Shop and we got a laptop.
We don't have like big stores like Future Shop and to get stationery, we have little stationery shops, we don't have a Staples, like, there was just a bunch of things that were done really differently in Canada.
So, it was a steep learning curve for a 17-year-old.
And other than that, I think I was just wide eyed and, you know, hopeful, full of excitement to be in a different country, you know, living, studying and taking everything in.
TINA PITTAWAY
17 is so young.
NOUR HADIDI:
Mm-Hmm. I was 17 for a couple weeks. I would say I turned 18 in September. But still, when I came to Canada I was 17.
TINA PITTAWAY
And how did comedy come to be a career choice? It is quite the- It's a bit of a 180.
NOUR HADIDI
It really is. I never thought it could be, to be honest with you. I finished my undergrad and I worked at a bank in Montreal.
I have a degree in finance, but I've always loved comedy ever since I was a child. If there was an ever a movie like Mrs. Doubtfire or anything with Steve Martin or sitcoms like the Fresh Prince of Bel Air, I just always loved them.
I couldn't tell you why. And then when I was an undergrad in my dorm room, my dorm-mate, she showed me some YouTube clips of stand-up comedians, and I kind of went down a rabbit hole there and I just started watching SNL and stand-up comedy. And I guess I found this art form that I could see myself doing.
And I always was just meant to be a hobby really. I did some sketch and some stand-up. I did some sketch while I was at McGill and then I did stand up the summer I graduated.
It was always just meant to be something I did for fun. But, um, when I started working at the bank around my third year, I was just like, Oh, I kind of miss comedy.
I want to do it again. So, I started doing it again and I haven't stopped.
TINA PITTAWAY
And when you say started doing it again, what were you doing?
NOUR HADIDI
Oh, stand-up comedy in Montreal, just open mics, shows at burrito shops, you know, shows in a basement, any show I could do, any club that would have me, any gig I could do, I would just, perform at.
TINA PITTAWAY
And, and you obviously you threw yourself into that, but, but what did it feel like to do that?
NOUR HADIDI
You know, it kind of takes over your life. It's, there's a rush when you do stand-up comedy that's unlike anything else to get up there. The adrenaline is, you know, pumping through your body.
And to make people laugh, it, it feels like acceptance, you know, when you're an immigrant and you come to a country from so far away and sometimes you feel alone, that laughter can feel like a hug. It can feel like an embrace.
And so, it really did wonders for my, um, my spirits. And so, it slowly took over my life. It was just like, oh, I just want to keep doing this.
I just want to keep getting better at it. It wasn't like a conscious decision. It just kind of happened.
TINA PITTAWAY:
When did you kind of appreciate the idea that there are different styles of comedy and how did you land on, uh, what would become your style, your brand of comedy?
NOUR HADIDI:
Um, when I moved to Toronto, it was the first time I had seen variety and stand up that I hadn't before because Montreal is a very small city and there's two main clubs.
So, to work there, your style tends to gravitate more towards club comedy, which is very, you know, set up/ punchline.
So, I think because I started in Montreal, that'll always be like my fundamental style is I am a joke writer, and I just I'm trying to get people to laugh as much as they can with the time I have on stage.
And when I moved to Toronto, I found all these these different kinds of comedy, like alt comedy, or people who did one liners, um, and I, yeah, I guess it was very eye opening, and it was something else, seeing a comic do something I could never do.
Or because in the past, I would always be like, Oh, I could maybe be more like this or more like that.
Or I really like how he did crowd work or how, you know, she talked about this topic. But it was the first time I saw a type of comedy that I could not relate to, I could not do.
It was actually really fun because I get to see comedy that I don't know where it's going to go.
And at first, I was really overwhelmed by it, I would say. But then I started to embrace the fact that we’re all different and just because someone is really good at something I can’t do, it doesn’t detract from how good I am at doing my style of comedy. Um so, I’d say at first I was, um, overwhelmed or self-critical but with the help of my therapist, of course, I started to see it as a joy to have people express themselves through comedy in the ways that they themselves are different and to just embrace my style and my comedy and just be myself, I suppose.
TINA PITTAWAY
There's also, in the Toronto comedy scene, there's a really strong presence of, of women of colour, and, and you're a part of that and, and a part of fostering that. How important has that been to you in developing your comedy?
NOUR HADIDI
Um, it's been monumental. When I first moved to Toronto, there were all-female shows, which was unheard of in Montreal.
And when you have an all-female show that restricts certain, you know, types of performers, there's always going to be an uproar.
So, I learned that. I learned when I first moved here that if you're an ‘other’ or if you're a minority, then you're going to get some sort of backlash for any shows that you put on, um, which has changed since then it's, it's gotten a lot better.
But there were also incredible shows like Yas Queen, which is an all women of color, which we are monthly female of color, like showcases for comedy.
And my friend Jess had a show called Women Rant. And yeah, so it was, it's really great.
And I think just, gave at least me the space to grow and try things out that I wouldn't have necessarily done at other shows because, um, if you're a woman, if you're, uh, an if you're an ‘other,’ you have to be incredible to be on a lineup of average white men.
And so, when I'm booked on those shows, I have to bring my best. But then when I'm on an all-female show or all women of color show, I have a little bit of leeway and not that I don't want to kill or I don't want to do amazing on stage, but you know, I could let loose a little bit more, I would say.
TINA PITTAWAY
Yeah, there's an openness it seems to, uh, being a bit more vulnerable, not just in terms of, uh, what you're delivering, but just, um, even your whole approach to it.
NOUR HADIDI
Um, thank you. Yeah, I never thought of it that way, but yeah, I guess my vulnerability on stage really, um, increased when I started talking about my mental health, I would say.
TINA PITTAWAY
You're very comfortable with that.
NOUR HADIDI
Yes. Yes, I am. And I've been in therapy for about seven years. And I've just learned the hard way that if you don't talk about it, if you don't connect with people, I guess coming from, um, the Arab world where appearances count for a lot where It's like, Oh, you have to show people that you're successful or um, you can't tell people your problems, you know, you keep it all hush hush.
That was really hard for me. But, um, I was depressed to the point where this had never happened before where I would show up to a show and I wouldn't want to tell jokes and I wouldn't want to be there.
So that was really scary because comedy was the one thing that I loved, that I did well, that I always wanted to do.
And so, I actually took a step back from stand up to work on my mental health, which is considered an, I mean, considered a no-no to take a step back from comedy. There's this mindset that you have to be grinding and working all the time. And so, for me to prioritize my mental health like that was something I really needed.
And in doing so, I, try to connect to who I was as a person and not really carry any shame. And so, when you let go of the shame, you're able to be more vulnerable because there's, there's nothing wrong with being, having depression.
It's not a weakness. It's, um, your body's way of telling you something's wrong in the way that you're leading your life, the way you're presenting yourself to the world and you need to fix it.
TINA PITTAWAY
No, that's, that's wonderful. And also I think it's something that the comedy industry and the people within it are, are, I don't know if they're more susceptible to it, but certainly because of the profile of comics who have struggled with depression, I think of John Cleese or, or Robin Williams, you know, those are the bigger ones that kind of come to mind.
Have you found that being open about your depression has helped you be a better comic slash communicator?
NOUR HADIDI
Absolutely because it's a heavier topic so you need to be really careful with how you talk about, uh, such a heavy loaded issue, right? And so, your joke writing has to be better. Um, you want to know what you're saying before you say it.
What, what is it that I'm trying to get across? And it's actually been also freeing because I no longer feel like I need to hide a part of myself, and I feel like the audience can pick up on when you are being honest and open and yourself, because to me, the joke matters of course.
How I see it is, the joke is just a representation or an extension of who I am as a person and my spirit and how I feel about things and my take on the world.
So, if my spirit is in an open place, then everything else will benefit from that. The audience will connect more. They will feel like I'm being more honest with them. I am more present and I am having fun on stage, right? In a way that I wasn't before, before I was just like, okay, these are my jokes. And I was on autopilot.
I was kind of disconnected emotionally, but now I'm a hundred percent present. I enjoy my time on stage.
I’m not scared of bombing or what bombing might mean to- what it might say about me in terms of the audience or the other comedians. I’m at work, and you have good days and you have bad days. And the one important thing is to just keep going, keep trying.
One bad set I used to, I used to think that if I had a bad set, that I was a terrible comedian, right?
I'm only as good as my worst set.
But I had to reframe that in my mind and say, No, I'm as good as my best set. I got them at that high. Not a lot of comics can get them to laugh like that.
And so that was a really big shift I had to do with my own, um, in my own, uh, you know, view of comedy, and what it meant when I got up on stage every night.
There's this great quote from. Kathleen Madigan, she's an incredible stand up.
And she's like, listen, you kill nothing happens, you bomb, nothing happens. And it's so true. No matter how you did, you're going to get back on stage the next night, and you're going to have another show. And what happened yesterday does not matter. So, um, Yeah, and I think that's also a really great thing for other parts of life, you know, like, um, you had a bad breakup. Alright, you had a bad break-up, you move on.
COMEDY CLIP
I, uh, try and go back home at least once a year, uh, just to see my family. And, uh, remember why I left. Because my dad is a doctor and my younger sister just graduated med school.
Oh, thanks. So, when we meet people, my dad's like, Yeah, these are the girls. Uh, this is Lina. The doctor. And, uh, this is Nour.
I'm like, thanks, dad. Uh, I'm not the daughter you should be worried about. Uh, because I'm not gonna kill someone at work. You know? And if I do, how amazing am I? Oh my god, thanks. Believe me guys, I would love it if one of you died right now. That would make my career. (laughter)
TINA PITTAWAY
We haven't really talked about your family and your family's reaction. Your sister's a doctor. Uh, do you have just the one sister?
NOUR HADIDI
Yes.
TINA PITTAWAY
So, it's-it's a pretty risky decision to, to haul yourself out of a certain life path and get on this one. What were some of those conversations like?
NOUR HADIDI
Well, I had been working in the corporate world for six years before I quit. I had gotten an offer to write on a TV show and I just felt like I had to take it. So, I quit my day job to write on this show not knowing what would happen after, but I just thought I was in my, you know, mid to late 20s I think I was 27 or 28 I was like, I'm only young once.
If comedy doesn't work out or I don't like it for whatever reason, I have enough experience to go back to, to fall back on.
Um, and so it just happened. And I actually didn’t tell - my sister's the one who told my dad, I guess I just didn't tell him and yeah, we, there were a few conversations after of like, when are you going to get an MBA, you know, how are you going to figure out your retirement or your pension like just I guess questions that any parent would want to ask their child, just to make sure that I'm okay that I know what I'm doing.
And, yeah, luckily those questions have stopped and comedy has been embraced. Um, I also think my, my dad was very good at making me feel like I was independent right from the get-go.
Like when I moved to Montreal and he dropped me off, you know, he was very passionate about me making my own decisions and making mistakes and learning from them.
So, you know, something as simple as like, Oh dad, should I sublet this for the summer or do this.
He's like, Nour, I sent you to Montreal to grow up and make these decisions for yourself. And so, no matter what happens, you make the decision and you learn and grow from it. So that's always been, um, part of how I was raised.
I'm very lucky in that I don't have to financially provide for my family and I know a lot of immigrants who move here do and so they don't have that same leeway, right? And, maybe there's a lot more expectations from women, but I'm very lucky that my, my dad was not like that.
Education is very important to my dad. It's like, uh, the number one thing growing up is for us to get our education.
Um, and because he's a doctor, he also wants us to help people no matter what we do in our lives. And for the longest time, I used to struggle as well because, you know, when I worked in finance, I just didn't feel like I was making an impact in the world. I just felt like I was stuck behind a desk in a cubicle.
When I worked in finance, I worked in risk management, so I was, at the end of the day, I just felt like I was contributing to rich people getting richer and capitalism and all these things that I think are detrimental to our world. And, when I do stand up, I don't feel like I'm a part of this corporate machine.
I feel like I have my voice, I'm self-employed, I get to talk about things I want to talk about, and I also think I'm adding a voice to the world that maybe, you know, not a lot of people share my point of view on a stand-up show that I'm on. Right. Cause I have a different upbringing and a different view of the world.
So, I do feel like I'm making more of an impact. And just if someone's having a bad day and they come to a show and I get them to laugh and forget about that. I mean, that's. True joy. That for me is something I don't take for granted.
COMEDY CLIP
I hate it so much. I got my money stolen in Cleveland. It's really bad.
I was there for a comedy festival and I found out on the second day and I started crying and I couldn't handle it and I called my dad. And he was like, Nour, stop it. It could have been a lot worse. You don't know what could have happened.
You know, they could have stolen your passport. Yeah. I was like, yeah, dad, cause everyone knows how valuable it is to buy and sell Jordanian passports.
(laughter)
TINA PITTAWAY
As you say, your comedy is, is very much informed by, by your perspective, both personal and, and political. Can, can that be scary for you at times as well to open that up?
NOUR HADIDI
Of course. I mean, with the war that's happening right now, I've seen agents being dropped, actors being dropped for just saying that, hey, Palestinians just deserve to exist and should not be killed and children should not be dying, right?
If you don't take the one viewpoint that is accepted by the establishment, then you're ostracized and you're dropped. And the good thing about all the therapy I've done is it's made me, um, value my quote-unquote career place in the industry a lot less.
I see I do see it as a job and I love it, but I see myself as a human being first, and all my decisions and all the things I do come from that.
And if anything, being a comedian has been my saving grace because I get to talk about things and share them with people who share the same viewpoints as me, but don't have another outlet. There's nowhere they can go. There's no, um, there's no conversation or discussion about it. So, I get to do that. I get to start the conversation.
I get to talk about it. I get to punch up, you know, and, and give a voice to the majority of the world who just wants a cease fire.
TINA PITTAWAY
Talk to me a little bit about the audience and the back and forth. What, um, what to you is a good audience?
NOUR HADIDI
You know, if you were to ask me before this war started, my, my, my answer would have been very different.
Before the war, I would say my, a good audience would be an audience who's there to really, uh, have fun, enjoy the show, not interrupt. And that's it.
Obviously, people who laugh make for a better audience, but I don't hold the audience accountable for not laughing.
It's not their job, and they might have been having a bad day like who am I to tell them “hey laugh at me now.” So, if as long as they're there and willing and open I would love for them to laugh, but if they're not like huge laughers, it's not gonna make them a bad audience.
Now, since the war started, um, I've been talking about my experiences growing up in the Middle East, um, because I was born and raised in Jordan, um, three fourths of the Jordanian population are actually Palestinians who were expelled in 1948, um, onwards.
And so, it's changed the fabric of the country I was born and raised in so I obviously have a point of view that I want to talk about.
And at times it's been met with a heckling that is just cruel, I would say. We all, for the most part when I do stand-up, we all live in the same shared reality, but in this case we don't we don't all live in the same shared reality.
We don't all agree on the premise or the setup of my joke before the punchline comes. And so, for that some people will heckle me and say rude or mean things. And it does affect me, like, I, I have cried on stage. It, it does get to me. I'm still, uh, you know, a very sensitive person.
Being an artist means that you're vulnerable and open and sharing yourself with the world. So, I guess I just didn't expect it the first time it happened. Um, But yeah, I just think a good audience is someone who respects a comic, respects their point of view, and, um, it's just open, you know, and not heckle or be mean or be rude.
TINA PITTAWAY
Yeah, one of your shows, the Kitchener show of 2019, it made news.
That was an awful experience. You, you, you were the victim of an Islamophobic heckler.
At the time, you'd said that you had dealt with hecklers before and separately you'd experienced hateful messages, but that was an evening where those two things kind of collided. Um, how, how shocking was that?
NOUR HADIDI
It was very shocking, I really didn't expect it, and it was my very first time headlining a theatre, like, me being the main act, doing something, you know, me doing 40 minutes of material on stage.
So, it was a really big deal. And the last thing on my mind was someone saying something like that.
Someone heckled me something about Muslims and how, you know, I don't, I don't want to repeat what he said, but yeah, it did make me cry on stage and I had to leave the stage and it really was horrible.
Um, but I did get a lot of positive, uh, support from the comedy community, comedians I had met all over Canada reached out and they were very supportive.
Um, and I, it was a learning experience and, um, it also taught me that unfortunately when something like that happens, people are so taken aback that they stand still, they're in shock.
So, if anything like that were to happen again, it's up to me to uh, either remove myself from the situation or deal with it, you know, so, um, yeah, it was, it was a grim day. At that point, it was the harshest thing I had experienced on stage.
TINA PITTAWAY
No, absolutely.
NOUR HADIDI
I had wonderful messages from Vancouver and Newfoundland and comics I'd worked with and just people who had read the article and sent me a message or emailed me, which was really nice to just say, I'm really sorry that this is what you've been through.
You're very welcome here in Canada. You know, this does not kind of represent me or us. So, I believe it was one of three Islamophobic incidents that had happened in Kitchener that month.
TINA PITTAWAY
Do you tailor your show perhaps in those audiences, or do you just, it's full on?
NOUR HADIDI
No, I mean, I, I'll maybe write a joke about, off the top about where I am, try and make fun of the city I'm in, or have a local reference, but for the most part my act is the same. Whether you're going to hear me in Toronto or Kitchener, I am who I am.
I'm doing 45 minutes. I'm going to talk about being Muslim because it's a huge part of my identity and how I see the world. Um, and so I am what I am. And Because of that, I learned that I'm not going to be for everyone, you know.
I'm just not going to appeal to everyone based on who I am. And I'm fine with that.
Because I would rather be authentic and share who I am wholeheartedly. And if it connects with 10 people authentically, that's worth more to me than trying to appease the masses.
TINA PITTAWAY
How challenging is it to be on your own, you know, because not many people move to another country without family coming with them, or, or without a partner. You came on your own, and, and you, and you fostered a life here. Uh, what were some of the challenges?
NOUR HADIDI
Oh gosh, um, finding your chosen family. I think chosen family is so important when you live alone. And yeah, finding people you can trust, you can rely on.
Toronto has been a delight in that sense. And yeah, I just think finding your tribe has been a lifeline for me. Believe it or not, my best friend is Jewish, you know, she's a stand-up comedian, she lives near me, and so you never know who will be your people.
TINA PITTAWAY
What's the best advice that you've received in terms of pushing your comedy to its next level?
NOUR HADIDI
I've received a lot of great advice. The first is be honest. You know, there's no shortcut to comedy, but if you're honest, the more people will find things in your act to relate to or find funny.
And the biggest piece of advice was don't write what you think other people will find funny. Write what you think is funny. Because the first is a losing game, you'll, you'll always be missing the mark. It's always moving. You'll never know where the target is. But if you're just authentically yourself and you write your own sense of humor, chances are there's someone out there who will relate to that.
I never thought when I was 17 moving here that I could be a full-time stand-up comedian, TV writer. I know it's really hard for immigrants as they just learn about this whole new world they move to while balancing all these expectations. But if I can do it, I promise you anyone else can.
I promise you. So, if you're thinking of doing something and you're not sure, just do it, you know? What's the worst that could happen? At least you tried. And that's what happened when I quit my day job. At least I tried. And it, and it worked. And I don't know what the future has for me. Maybe I won't do comedy, but at least I tried.
And so, I just want to tell young women, young immigrants that just don't take no for an answer and do what you want.
TINA PITTAWAY
That's wonderful. Nour Hadidi. Thank you so much.
NOUR HADIDI
Thank you, Tina.